Washington state helmet hassle

This is for all U.S. residents or visitors:

We'd just covered over a thousand miles of touring, camping out and
seeing the sites in Eastern Oregon, Washington and Idaho. My friend and
I were attempting to ride home to Oregon through the state of Washington
in 105 degree heat. We were tired and hot, and stopped at a little place
to the west of Walla Walla named "Touchet". As we were rehydrating and
hanging out in the air-conditioned quickie-mart there, a Washington
State Highway patrolman (sorry, I didn't get his name or license)
started giving us a long, deliberate and malevolent eye as he stood in line.
I wondered to myself what in the world we could possibly be doing
that was illegal and could come up with nothing. Eventually he left (I
thought) but he really went outside to sit in his car and wait for us.
When I went outside to remount, from the front seat of his car he
told me that if I put on my beanie and rode, he would cite me *and* (now
get this) _"SEIZE"_ my motorcycle.
Not "impound" mind you, but _SEIZE_!
I asked him if he'd ever heard of the constitution and he admitted
that he had, but basically blew it off much in the same fashion that
George Bush has referred to it as "Just a Goddamned Piece of Paper!":

http://tinyurl.com/232hv3

I then told him there was nothing wrong with my helmet (yes, it was a
beanie as was my friend's) and showed him the DOT sticker on the back of it.
"That helmet isn't legal in the state of Washington. The new law,
effective on the 22nd (notice that he avoided saying which month he was
referring to) says that Washington is going to adopt federal guidelines
for helmet construction."
"There ARE no federal guidelines for helmet construction."
"Yes, there are now. They just changed it (lying through his teeth.)
Standards for padding thickness, straps, etc. are all clearly defined in
that law."
Not wanting to give him any more of what he wanted, instead of asking
what law he was referring to I simply said, "There are better things to
bust a guy's chops about than helmets. My friend and I are just trying
to get home. Once we're back in Oregon, we won't be coming back."
"If that's the case, then I'll let you go through as long as you
don't come back into Washington wearing that helmet. However, if another
officer sees you, he's going to give you a ticket."
/'Yeah, right,'/ I thought to myself. I've had cops pull that kind of
thing on me before and was not about to fall for it again. I NEVER
believe anything that a cop says at face value. IME, they will make up
laws and lie their collective asses off to entrap you into doing
something so that they can bust you anyway. "Let you go through"
translates directly to "just try to get on your bike and I will nail
your ass to the wall."
I simply said, "Thanks."
In the mean time, my friend had come out of the store and he also
politely thanked the trooper for the warning, after which the guy drove
off towards the west on Highway 12. To be fair, I do have to admit that
he could have simply gone up the road and laid for us, but he did give
us fair warning.
On the other hand, immediately after he left, a guy in his thirties
ran up to us and said, "That guy's a real asshole. Don't believe him.
He's going to lay in wait for you up the road and nail your ass. He got
me and my old lady last week for the same thing. He ticketed me and not
my old lady for some reason, but then let us drive off. Since you're
from out of state, you can bet that he's going to do whatever he can to
fuck with you. Your best bet is to go up Hanson Road or Touchet North
and try to cut around him."
As my friend and I were discussing our options, an older guy came up
to us and asked us if we'd seen the unmarked stater go blasting by just
then, also heading east. Now it became obvious what the cop's plan was.
He wouldn't give us the tickets- he'd leave that honor to his buddy in
the unmarked car.

My friend and I thought about all this but decided that the best
thing to do was to gas up quickly and do a 180 back to Walla Walla. From
there, we would bag ass over the border into Oregon where we would
presumably be safe (turned out we were.)
On the way back to Walla Walla, ANOTHER unmarked state highway
cruiser went blasting by us in the opposite direction. I guess he didn't
ID us as the bikers who needed some grief, so we continued on our way at
the speed limit unmolested.
Once in Walla Walla, we headed down Highway 125 into
Milton-Freewater, Oregon and as we crossed the border, my friend waved
goodbye to Washington. I also waved but for some reason, all of my
fingers but one were unable to straighten into the upright position if
you get my drift.

The rest of our ride was both cooler and uneventful, but we had to
ride many miles out of our way to avoid getting a ticket.

You are advised to avoid the state of Washington if you wear a beanie.

In response to this incident, I decided to try to obtain a link to the
NHTSA's (DOT) standards for helmet construction. The federal standards
describing approved motorcycle helmets are in Federal Motor Vehicle
Safety Standard (FMVSS) 218.

_FMVSS 218_

Remember that number, my friends. And better yet, try to find it on an
official United States government website.

Can't find it? Here, I'll help you:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site...ewName=Article

or better yet:

http://tinyurl.com/ywqy7n

It can be gotten to by doing the following:

1. Go to the NHTSA home page at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/

2. Click on the "Traffic Safety" tab (note: NOT, as would be expected,
the "Vehicles & Equipment" tab)

3. In the light blue left hand column, click on "Motorcycles"

4. Scroll down to "Studies & Research"

5. Click on "Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 218 (Motorcycle
Helmets)"

(My thanks to Michael at the NHTSA Motorcycles division for his help in
finding out how to do this. It took me over three hours to get this
information. In the process, I was hung up on, yelled at, deliberately
made to believe that I had a bad connection and so on. Finally I was
forwarded to Michael, and his patient and helpful demeanor was greatly
appreciated.)

Note though, that the current version of the actual wording of the
standards is apparently only available from the "Federal Register":

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/index.html

The wording at the NHTSA link I provided may or may not be current
("Revised as of October 1, 1997" and the current version is 2002 I
believe) but it's the best I can find. I spent over an hour searching
the Federal Register, but to no avail.

So much for "ignorance of the law is no excuse." Now it would appear
that we the people are deliberately being held in ignorance of laws so
that we can be arrested or hassled at any time.

Also note this website (a vague description of how to identify an unsafe
helmet):

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...ages/page2.htm

I've been wearing that beanie for over 20 years now. However, I want to
obey the law and will start wearing my other helmet which has one inch
of styrofoam lining and is DOT approved. What gets me though, is that
helmet law are so deliberately obfuscatory and vague. IMO, both the
government and the legal industry (I no longer refer to it as a
profession) do this intentionally so that they can always snap
"IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE!!" and then suck legal fees off of
you. They don't give a FLYING FUCK about your safety, or whether or not
you are found guilty or not. They just want those legal fees. And to get
you into a court of law, they have to deliberately make the standards
and guidelines, which you and helmet manufacturers are supposed to
follow, as vague and hard to find as possible so that you will BREAK THE
LAW NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY NOT TO.

Remember this:

1. If you bought your helmet and the DOT label separately, then you put
the label on later, you are going to most likely be found guilty. Period.

2. All helmets sold in the United States have to be designed within the
FMVSS 218 standards by federal law (I forget which, but believe me,
this is the case.)

3. Novelty helmets aren't worth the money you pay for them as more and
more states that have helmet laws are changing such laws to read that in
their state, helmets must meet federal standards.

4. Those standards are damned near impossible to find and when you do,
they are both incomplete and old. For instance, note that there are
supposed to be illustrations included with FMVSS 218 but that they have
been ommitted from the NHTSA website.

If anybody has better luck finding the current version of FMVSS 218 at
the Federal Register, please let me know. I spent over an hour there and
had no luck. I also called them and spent a half hour talking with one
of their reps, and we both gave up.

(Later) I just found this government site which has FMVSS 218 and links
to all the illustrations:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...ction_toc=2113

or:

http://tinyurl.com/3x4g5u

Ride free and welcome to Amerika.

--
John Corliss BS206

"John Corliss" <jcorliss@fake.invalid> wrote in message
news:139pv37gvh91v00@corp.supernews.com...
> This is for all U.S. residents or visitors:
>
> We'd just covered over a thousand miles of touring, camping out and
> seeing the sites in Eastern Oregon, Washington and Idaho. My friend and
> I were attempting to ride home to Oregon through the state of Washington
> in 105 degree heat. We were tired and hot, and stopped at a little place
> to the west of Walla Walla named "Touchet". As we were rehydrating and
> hanging out in the air-conditioned quickie-mart there, a Washington
> State Highway patrolman (sorry, I didn't get his name or license)
> started giving us a long, deliberate and malevolent eye as he stood in
line.
> I wondered to myself what in the world we could possibly be doing
> that was illegal and could come up with nothing. Eventually he left (I
> thought) but he really went outside to sit in his car and wait for us.
> When I went outside to remount, from the front seat of his car he
> told me that if I put on my beanie and rode, he would cite me *and* (now
> get this) _"SEIZE"_ my motorcycle.
> Not "impound" mind you, but _SEIZE_!
> I asked him if he'd ever heard of the constitution and he admitted
> that he had, but basically blew it off much in the same fashion that
> George Bush has referred to it as "Just a Goddamned Piece of Paper!":
>
> http://tinyurl.com/232hv3
>
> I then told him there was nothing wrong with my helmet (yes, it was a
> beanie as was my friend's) and showed him the DOT sticker on the back of
it.
> "That helmet isn't legal in the state of Washington. The new law,
> effective on the 22nd (notice that he avoided saying which month he was
> referring to) says that Washington is going to adopt federal guidelines
> for helmet construction."
> "There ARE no federal guidelines for helmet construction."
> "Yes, there are now. They just changed it (lying through his teeth.)
> Standards for padding thickness, straps, etc. are all clearly defined in
> that law."
> Not wanting to give him any more of what he wanted, instead of asking
> what law he was referring to I simply said, "There are better things to
> bust a guy's chops about than helmets. My friend and I are just trying
> to get home. Once we're back in Oregon, we won't be coming back."
> "If that's the case, then I'll let you go through as long as you
> don't come back into Washington wearing that helmet. However, if another
> officer sees you, he's going to give you a ticket."
> /'Yeah, right,'/ I thought to myself. I've had cops pull that kind of
> thing on me before and was not about to fall for it again. I NEVER
> believe anything that a cop says at face value. IME, they will make up
> laws and lie their collective asses off to entrap you into doing
> something so that they can bust you anyway. "Let you go through"
> translates directly to "just try to get on your bike and I will nail
> your ass to the wall."
> I simply said, "Thanks."
> In the mean time, my friend had come out of the store and he also
> politely thanked the trooper for the warning, after which the guy drove
> off towards the west on Highway 12. To be fair, I do have to admit that
> he could have simply gone up the road and laid for us, but he did give
> us fair warning.
> On the other hand, immediately after he left, a guy in his thirties
> ran up to us and said, "That guy's a real asshole. Don't believe him.
> He's going to lay in wait for you up the road and nail your ass. He got
> me and my old lady last week for the same thing. He ticketed me and not
> my old lady for some reason, but then let us drive off. Since you're
> from out of state, you can bet that he's going to do whatever he can to
> fuck with you. Your best bet is to go up Hanson Road or Touchet North
> and try to cut around him."
> As my friend and I were discussing our options, an older guy came up
> to us and asked us if we'd seen the unmarked stater go blasting by just
> then, also heading east. Now it became obvious what the cop's plan was.
> He wouldn't give us the tickets- he'd leave that honor to his buddy in
> the unmarked car.
>
> My friend and I thought about all this but decided that the best
> thing to do was to gas up quickly and do a 180 back to Walla Walla. From
> there, we would bag ass over the border into Oregon where we would
> presumably be safe (turned out we were.)
> On the way back to Walla Walla, ANOTHER unmarked state highway
> cruiser went blasting by us in the opposite direction. I guess he didn't
> ID us as the bikers who needed some grief, so we continued on our way at
> the speed limit unmolested.
> Once in Walla Walla, we headed down Highway 125 into
> Milton-Freewater, Oregon and as we crossed the border, my friend waved
> goodbye to Washington. I also waved but for some reason, all of my
> fingers but one were unable to straighten into the upright position if
> you get my drift.
>
> The rest of our ride was both cooler and uneventful, but we had to
> ride many miles out of our way to avoid getting a ticket.
>
> You are advised to avoid the state of Washington if you wear a beanie.
>
> In response to this incident, I decided to try to obtain a link to the
> NHTSA's (DOT) standards for helmet construction. The federal standards
> describing approved motorcycle helmets are in Federal Motor Vehicle
> Safety Standard (FMVSS) 218.
>
> _FMVSS 218_
>
> Remember that number, my friends. And better yet, try to find it on an
> official United States government website.
>
> Can't find it? Here, I'll help you:
>
>
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site...06bc1d6b760008
a0c_ws_MX&javax.portlet.prp_4670b93a0b088a006bc1d6 b760008a0c_viewID=detail_v
iew&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=com.vignette.cacheto ken&javax.portlet.endCache
Tok=com.vignette.cachetoken&itemID=f1fd61db8a39001 0VgnVCM1000002c567798RCRD&
overrideViewName=Article
>
> or better yet:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ywqy7n
>
> It can be gotten to by doing the following:
>
> 1. Go to the NHTSA home page at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
>
> 2. Click on the "Traffic Safety" tab (note: NOT, as would be expected,
> the "Vehicles & Equipment" tab)
>
> 3. In the light blue left hand column, click on "Motorcycles"
>
> 4. Scroll down to "Studies & Research"
>
> 5. Click on "Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 218 (Motorcycle
> Helmets)"
>
> (My thanks to Michael at the NHTSA Motorcycles division for his help in
> finding out how to do this. It took me over three hours to get this
> information. In the process, I was hung up on, yelled at, deliberately
> made to believe that I had a bad connection and so on. Finally I was
> forwarded to Michael, and his patient and helpful demeanor was greatly
> appreciated.)
>
> Note though, that the current version of the actual wording of the
> standards is apparently only available from the "Federal Register":
>
> http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/index.html
>
> The wording at the NHTSA link I provided may or may not be current
> ("Revised as of October 1, 1997" and the current version is 2002 I
> believe) but it's the best I can find. I spent over an hour searching
> the Federal Register, but to no avail.
>
> So much for "ignorance of the law is no excuse." Now it would appear
> that we the people are deliberately being held in ignorance of laws so
> that we can be arrested or hassled at any time.
>
> Also note this website (a vague description of how to identify an unsafe
> helmet):
>
>
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...ages/page2.htm
>
> I've been wearing that beanie for over 20 years now. However, I want to
> obey the law and will start wearing my other helmet which has one inch
> of styrofoam lining and is DOT approved. What gets me though, is that
> helmet law are so deliberately obfuscatory and vague. IMO, both the
> government and the legal industry (I no longer refer to it as a
> profession) do this intentionally so that they can always snap
> "IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE!!" and then suck legal fees off of
> you. They don't give a FLYING FUCK about your safety, or whether or not
> you are found guilty or not. They just want those legal fees. And to get
> you into a court of law, they have to deliberately make the standards
> and guidelines, which you and helmet manufacturers are supposed to
> follow, as vague and hard to find as possible so that you will BREAK THE
> LAW NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY NOT TO.
>
> Remember this:
>
> 1. If you bought your helmet and the DOT label separately, then you put
> the label on later, you are going to most likely be found guilty. Period.
>
> 2. All helmets sold in the United States have to be designed within the
> FMVSS 218 standards by federal law (I forget which, but believe me,
> this is the case.)
>
> 3. Novelty helmets aren't worth the money you pay for them as more and
> more states that have helmet laws are changing such laws to read that in
> their state, helmets must meet federal standards.
>
> 4. Those standards are damned near impossible to find and when you do,
> they are both incomplete and old. For instance, note that there are
> supposed to be illustrations included with FMVSS 218 but that they have
> been ommitted from the NHTSA website.
>
> If anybody has better luck finding the current version of FMVSS 218 at
> the Federal Register, please let me know. I spent over an hour there and
> had no luck. I also called them and spent a half hour talking with one
> of their reps, and we both gave up.
>
> (Later) I just found this government site which has FMVSS 218 and links
> to all the illustrations:
>
>
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...ction_toc=2113
>
> or:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3x4g5u
>
> Ride free and welcome to Amerika.
>
> --
> John Corliss BS206

Look up and join your local chapter of ABATE who fights for riders choice
when it comes to wearing helmets and fights for more and better education of
both bikers and those others who drive the roads. Biker rights means much
more than the choice to choose what if any helmet you wear. More important
is for other drivers to SEE and respect the rights of a bike on the road.
The greatest dangers I have faced while on my bike have had nothing to do
with a helmet but with cars and trucks pulling into my lane, across my lane
or failing to stop at an intersection at which I am stopped. Had I not been
alert and avoided the situation no helmet in the world would have kept me
alive one moment longer.

grdøg wrote:
> John Corliss wrote:
>>
>> This is for all U.S. residents or visitors:
>>
>> We'd just covered over a thousand miles of touring, camping out and
>> seeing the sites in Eastern Oregon, Washington and Idaho. My friend and
>> (big snip)
>> Ride free and welcome to Amerika.
>
> Look up and join your local chapter of ABATE who fights for riders choice
> when it comes to wearing helmets and fights for more and better education of
> both bikers and those others who drive the roads. Biker rights means much
> more than the choice to choose what if any helmet you wear. More important
> is for other drivers to SEE and respect the rights of a bike on the road.
> The greatest dangers I have faced while on my bike have had nothing to do
> with a helmet but with cars and trucks pulling into my lane, across my lane
> or failing to stop at an intersection at which I am stopped. Had I not been
> alert and avoided the situation no helmet in the world would have kept me
> alive one moment longer.

I've been a member of ABATE for decades. Was also an officer in the
local chapter. However, this year I decided not to renew my membership
because they still haven't provided any explanation for these actions:

http://www.easyrider.com/treachery.htm

--
John Corliss BS206

"John Corliss" <jcorliss@fake.invalid> wrote in message
news:139uecl9tr2e4d7@corp.supernews.com...
> grdøg wrote:
> > John Corliss wrote:
> >>
> >> This is for all U.S. residents or visitors:
> >>
> >> We'd just covered over a thousand miles of touring, camping out and
> >> seeing the sites in Eastern Oregon, Washington and Idaho. My friend and
> >> (big snip)
> >> Ride free and welcome to Amerika.
> >
> > Look up and join your local chapter of ABATE who fights for riders
choice
> > when it comes to wearing helmets and fights for more and better
education of
> > both bikers and those others who drive the roads. Biker rights means
much
> > more than the choice to choose what if any helmet you wear. More
important
> > is for other drivers to SEE and respect the rights of a bike on the
road.
> > The greatest dangers I have faced while on my bike have had nothing to
do
> > with a helmet but with cars and trucks pulling into my lane, across my
lane
> > or failing to stop at an intersection at which I am stopped. Had I not
been
> > alert and avoided the situation no helmet in the world would have kept
me
> > alive one moment longer.
>
> I've been a member of ABATE for decades. Was also an officer in the
> local chapter. However, this year I decided not to renew my membership
> because they still haven't provided any explanation for these actions:
>
> http://www.easyrider.com/treachery.htm
>
> --
> John Corliss BS206

Interesting reading John, I've printed up several copies of the page and
will take it to my local ABATE meeting on Sunday and see what they have to
say about it.

The writer points out that he will not belong to a group that supports
helmet laws but also points out the importance of being a "voting Delegate"
and I would point out that you cannot vote if you don't belong. So maybe it
is six of one and a half dozen of the other but perhaps the first thing
needed is to change the leadership of the local ABATE and only members can
do that. If you know of a better way I say go for it, good luck, and let me
know the "how" and I'll do the same here. It sounds like Oregon and Michigan
have traveled very simular paths in getting bills passed but vetoed. Just
that it sounds like Oregon did have a time without a helmet law which
Michigan hasn't so far. It sounds silly to many that I am so strongly
against helmet laws but would likely wear one nearly all the time even with
out a law, and I fee much the same about seat belts.

If I get an answer on Sunday count on my posting it here.....

"John Corliss" <jcorliss@fake.invalid> wrote in message
news:139uecl9tr2e4d7@corp.supernews.com...
> grdøg wrote:
> > John Corliss wrote:
> >>
> >> This is for all U.S. residents or visitors:
> >>
> >> We'd just covered over a thousand miles of touring, camping out and
> >> seeing the sites in Eastern Oregon, Washington and Idaho. My friend and
> >> (big snip)
> >> Ride free and welcome to Amerika.
> >
> > Look up and join your local chapter of ABATE who fights for riders
choice
> > when it comes to wearing helmets and fights for more and better
education of
> > both bikers and those others who drive the roads. Biker rights means
much
> > more than the choice to choose what if any helmet you wear. More
important
> > is for other drivers to SEE and respect the rights of a bike on the
road.
> > The greatest dangers I have faced while on my bike have had nothing to
do
> > with a helmet but with cars and trucks pulling into my lane, across my
lane
> > or failing to stop at an intersection at which I am stopped. Had I not
been
> > alert and avoided the situation no helmet in the world would have kept
me
> > alive one moment longer.
>
> I've been a member of ABATE for decades. Was also an officer in the
> local chapter. However, this year I decided not to renew my membership
> because they still haven't provided any explanation for these actions:
>
> http://www.easyrider.com/treachery.htm
>
> --
> John Corliss BS206

A quick question, read the page you posted but if it says who wrote the page
I am not seeing it.
He tells a bit about himself but I don't see a name, do you know who is the
writer??

grdøg wrote:
> "John Corliss" <jcorliss@fake.invalid> wrote in message
> news:139uecl9tr2e4d7@corp.supernews.com...
>> grdøg wrote:
>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>> This is for all U.S. residents or visitors:
>>>>
>>>> We'd just covered over a thousand miles of touring, camping out and
>>>> seeing the sites in Eastern Oregon, Washington and Idaho. My friend and
>>>> (big snip)
>>>> Ride free and welcome to Amerika.
>>> Look up and join your local chapter of ABATE who fights for riders
> choice
>>> when it comes to wearing helmets and fights for more and better
> education of
>>> both bikers and those others who drive the roads. Biker rights means
> much
>>> more than the choice to choose what if any helmet you wear. More
> important
>>> is for other drivers to SEE and respect the rights of a bike on the
> road.
>>> The greatest dangers I have faced while on my bike have had nothing to
> do
>>> with a helmet but with cars and trucks pulling into my lane, across my
> lane
>>> or failing to stop at an intersection at which I am stopped. Had I not
> been
>>> alert and avoided the situation no helmet in the world would have kept
> me
>>> alive one moment longer.
>> I've been a member of ABATE for decades. Was also an officer in the
>> local chapter. However, this year I decided not to renew my membership
>> because they still haven't provided any explanation for these actions:
>>
>> http://www.easyrider.com/treachery.htm
>
> Interesting reading John, I've printed up several copies of the page and
> will take it to my local ABATE meeting on Sunday and see what they have to
> say about it.
>
> The writer points out that he will not belong to a group that supports
> helmet laws but also points out the importance of being a "voting Delegate"
> and I would point out that you cannot vote if you don't belong. So maybe it
> is six of one and a half dozen of the other but perhaps the first thing
> needed is to change the leadership of the local ABATE and only members can
> do that. If you know of a better way I say go for it, good luck, and let me
> know the "how" and I'll do the same here. It sounds like Oregon and Michigan
> have traveled very simular paths in getting bills passed but vetoed. Just
> that it sounds like Oregon did have a time without a helmet law which
> Michigan hasn't so far. It sounds silly to many that I am so strongly
> against helmet laws but would likely wear one nearly all the time even with
> out a law, and I fee much the same about seat belts.
>
> If I get an answer on Sunday count on my posting it here.....

grdøg, please note that the incident described on that site happened a
while back and that the Oregon ABATE leadership has changed quite a bit.
I still would like it explained though.

--
John Corliss BS206

grdøg wrote:
> "John Corliss" <jcorliss@fake.invalid> wrote in message
> news:139uecl9tr2e4d7@corp.supernews.com...
>> grdøg wrote:
>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>> This is for all U.S. residents or visitors:
>>>>
>>>> We'd just covered over a thousand miles of touring, camping out and
>>>> seeing the sites in Eastern Oregon, Washington and Idaho. My friend and
>>>> (big snip)
>>>> Ride free and welcome to Amerika.
>>> Look up and join your local chapter of ABATE who fights for riders
> choice
>>> when it comes to wearing helmets and fights for more and better
> education of
>>> both bikers and those others who drive the roads. Biker rights means
> much
>>> more than the choice to choose what if any helmet you wear. More
> important
>>> is for other drivers to SEE and respect the rights of a bike on the
> road.
>>> The greatest dangers I have faced while on my bike have had nothing to
> do
>>> with a helmet but with cars and trucks pulling into my lane, across my
> lane
>>> or failing to stop at an intersection at which I am stopped. Had I not
> been
>>> alert and avoided the situation no helmet in the world would have kept
> me
>>> alive one moment longer.
>> I've been a member of ABATE for decades. Was also an officer in the
>> local chapter. However, this year I decided not to renew my membership
>> because they still haven't provided any explanation for these actions:
>>
>> http://www.easyrider.com/treachery.htm
>>
>> --
>> John Corliss BS206
>
> A quick question, read the page you posted but if it says who wrote the page
> I am not seeing it.
> He tells a bit about himself but I don't see a name, do you know who is the
> writer??

Backtrack to http://www.easyrider.com/ and I think you'll see some info
about the author. However, I've been in contact with him and he's kind
of moved on (although, one has to ask why he leaves the site up if
that's the case.)

--
John Corliss BS206

"John Corliss" <jcorliss@fake.invalid> wrote in message
news:139vr3uasfom52a@corp.supernews.com...
> grdøg wrote:
> > "John Corliss" <jcorliss@fake.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:139uecl9tr2e4d7@corp.supernews.com...
> >> grdøg wrote:
> >>> John Corliss wrote:
> >>>> This is for all U.S. residents or visitors:
> >>>>
> >>>> We'd just covered over a thousand miles of touring, camping out and
> >>>> seeing the sites in Eastern Oregon, Washington and Idaho. My friend
and
> >>>> (big snip)
> >>>> Ride free and welcome to Amerika.
> >>> Look up and join your local chapter of ABATE who fights for riders
> > choice
> >>> when it comes to wearing helmets and fights for more and better
> > education of
> >>> both bikers and those others who drive the roads. Biker rights means
> > much
> >>> more than the choice to choose what if any helmet you wear. More
> > important
> >>> is for other drivers to SEE and respect the rights of a bike on the
> > road.
> >>> The greatest dangers I have faced while on my bike have had nothing to
> > do
> >>> with a helmet but with cars and trucks pulling into my lane, across my
> > lane
> >>> or failing to stop at an intersection at which I am stopped. Had I not
> > been
> >>> alert and avoided the situation no helmet in the world would have kept
> > me
> >>> alive one moment longer.
> >> I've been a member of ABATE for decades. Was also an officer in the
> >> local chapter. However, this year I decided not to renew my membership
> >> because they still haven't provided any explanation for these actions:
> >>
> >> http://www.easyrider.com/treachery.htm
> >
> > Interesting reading John, I've printed up several copies of the page and
> > will take it to my local ABATE meeting on Sunday and see what they have
to
> > say about it.
> >
> > The writer points out that he will not belong to a group that supports
> > helmet laws but also points out the importance of being a "voting
Delegate"
> > and I would point out that you cannot vote if you don't belong. So maybe
it
> > is six of one and a half dozen of the other but perhaps the first thing
> > needed is to change the leadership of the local ABATE and only members
can
> > do that. If you know of a better way I say go for it, good luck, and let
me
> > know the "how" and I'll do the same here. It sounds like Oregon and
Michigan
> > have traveled very simular paths in getting bills passed but vetoed.
Just
> > that it sounds like Oregon did have a time without a helmet law which
> > Michigan hasn't so far. It sounds silly to many that I am so strongly
> > against helmet laws but would likely wear one nearly all the time even
with
> > out a law, and I fee much the same about seat belts.
> >
> > If I get an answer on Sunday count on my posting it here.....
>
> grdøg, please note that the incident described on that site happened a
> while back and that the Oregon ABATE leadership has changed quite a bit.
> I still would like it explained though.
>
> --
> John Corliss BS206

I did notice that the most recent date was 2004 and it seems that most of
what took place seems to have been 2000, but it also seems you still have
the helmet law....

(various snippages apply)

grdøg wrote:
> John Corliss wrote:
>> grdøg wrote:
>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.easyrider.com/treachery.htm
>>>
>>> Interesting reading John, I've printed up several copies of the page and
>>> will take it to my local ABATE meeting on Sunday and see what they have
>>> to say about it.
>>>
>>> The writer points out that he will not belong to a group that supports
>>> helmet laws but also points out the importance of being a "voting
> Delegate"

Sorry, but I don't see any conflict in those two views. If a group
supports helmet laws, then it's not worth trying to vote for anything
within it. As for being a delegate, I'm not sure what he was referring to.

>>> and I would point out that you cannot vote if you don't belong. So maybe
> it
>>> is six of one and a half dozen of the other but perhaps the first thing
>>> needed is to change the leadership of the local ABATE and only members
> can
>>> do that. If you know of a better way I say go for it, good luck, and let
> me
>>> know the "how" and I'll do the same here. It sounds like Oregon and
> Michigan
>>> have traveled very simular paths in getting bills passed but vetoed.
> Just
>>> that it sounds like Oregon did have a time without a helmet law

The helmet law was repealed in 1976 or so, then reinstated in 1988.

>>> which
>>> Michigan hasn't so far. It sounds silly to many that I am so strongly
>>> against helmet laws but would likely wear one nearly all the time even
>>> without a law, and I fee much the same about seat belts.
>>>
>>> If I get an answer on Sunday count on my posting it here.....
>>>
>> grdøg, please note that the incident described on that site happened a
>> while back and that the Oregon ABATE leadership has changed quite a bit.
>> I still would like it explained though.
>
> I did notice that the most recent date was 2004 and it seems that most of
> what took place seems to have been 2000, but it also seems you still have
> the helmet law....

Well, that was my point. It's why I want an answer. Many of the people
who did the deed, although no longer in the same officer positions, are
still around.

--
John Corliss BS206

> (various snippages apply)
>
> >>> The writer points out that he will not belong to a group that supports
> >>> helmet laws but also points out the importance of being a "voting
> > Delegate"
>
> Sorry, but I don't see any conflict in those two views. If a group
> supports helmet laws, then it's not worth trying to vote for anything
> within it. As for being a delegate, I'm not sure what he was referring to.
>
Not really "conflict" just a point of you cannot change what you're not
involved with.

If you and everyone else that shares you opinions quit then it isn't likely
that
things will ever change to your point of view. If your happy with how things
are you can afford to sit on the side and watch life go by. I how "they" are
running things pisses you off a bit you have to stick your head in and tell
them so. Good chance of catching one in the kisser doing that but I don't
know of another way to get it done.